Tesla Model 3 AC charging in -12°C

Publisert 2. feb.. 2021
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  • schuko exist as 10A and as 16A!

  • Hey bjorn I’m pretty sure u explained it or talked about it in a past vid but what are the stickers on the car?

  • Hi Björn, I really like your videos; fun and innformative. :o) I guess the actual heating of the battery is also controlled over a period of time, because rapid, extreme temperature changes might also degrade the battery - like going from -10 C to +20 C in a minute?

  • 16 Amps is enough to charge in these temps. Charged with a NEMA 6-20 and the Tesla UMC from day one. Experience temperatures this lower or lower

  • Great episode, very helpful. FYI, when you are in the car, there is a tint across part of pic

  • Hi Bjørn! In Denmark many people is charging in the night hours because off lower price on electricity. But with this video I’m wondering if the consumption of heating up battery while charging on AC is higher than the money saved on lower price? Wouldn’t that be a interesting test 😉👍 Thanks for all your good work

  • VW Lupo 3l is better Turbo gasoline vw golf forever

  • Very interesting. Thx for the effort. At these temperatures a Tesla will charge fore ever if it can pull only 2 kW

  • Hi Bjørn, Nice app you have on your phone here. Can you tell how to get this?

  • so it's more efficient to start charge the car right when I come back home and drive it cold than to start charging later to find it warm... I'll also use this in the Alps! where we have -2 / +5 degrees

  • Hey Bjørn, I think a video on full self driving from point A to B in a common scenario would be awesome

  • What version are the car on? I see the battery icon is green, and in 2020.48.35.5 it is gray.

  • I live in a pretty cold place in Canada, and I do not have a garage. Also I only have a 110v AC plug (that probably cant handle very many amps). Without upgrading to a better charger would it be horrible to own a Tesla in winter if the weather is often between -5 and -20 with it getting as cold as -30 occasionally? The good thing is I work from home and live in a small town, so usually my trips would be short around town (under 10km total), except for when I am going to another city and in that case it would take me 200km+ of driving. Would be nice if I could drive the car for short trips around town without having to waste all the energy to warm up the battery and then leave it plugged in to trickle charge in the cold. If everytime I plug it in it has to do a big warm up cycle it seems like it would be quite inefficient.

  • We have 16 amp fuse at home. But if we install a Tesla wall charger for example we won't have any issues charging a cold battery in winter? Right?

  • Thank you Bjørn - you're the best! These result could speak for charging the minute you get home, but I have also heard the argument that charging up till the moment you are going to drive the car, for the battery to become more efficient. I am not sure which argument weigh the most. Also it would be interesting to see the same test on a Non-performance (LR) 2021.

  • Would love to see the charging efficiency test! Pro-tip: First charge rather than preheat. (That’ll just warm up the battery.) Then preheat long enough to melt ice/snow, but not too much longer (because then some water will freeze again if you preheat for too long, e.g. making the trunk very icy).

  • Very interesting. You do tell the stories that all car journalists should tell. Appreciate it a lot.

  • so tecnically we could feed the car forever (like 1000kwh) with 1kwh at -11 C* , and all will be wasted reaching the +10,5 Celsius on the battery. Probably many EVs could beat tesla in this senario. in a AC race ftw

  • test with 230v, 10 amp from 10% to 90% and see how many hours it takes.

  • I am from seattle usa. Outside is 6C now, but my car sitting in my garage is 16C according to the mobile app. Huge difference. Also, it is possible to heat up a garage with a little bit of energy, you cant heat up outside air.

    • Garage is usually closed so the waste heat from the battery will radiate into the garage thus heating up the garage.

  • Lol, a problem we won't have here in subtropical Queensland. Thanks Bjorn, another great video. 👍

  • Not exactly a good scenario... Tesla needs to have a plugin battery pack that can be kept warm.

  • Thanks Bjorn. Very interesting to learn that the battery heater take whatever the input power but no more. Could you do a similar test with scan my Tesla while preheating the car, unplugged (and maybe plugged with 2/4kw) ? How much power the battery heating will pull for battery preconditioning , vs climate (with temp set from low to high, and test the power pulled by the seats heater). Every morning I do a very small trip, 4km, and preheating for a few minutes waste lot of range, about 10km at -2c. I was wondering if battery preconditioning always on with climate is really worth it for very small trip.

  • Great video! Wish I had seen it 2 years ago. Drove to my brother-in-law’s house for dinner. -25c outside. Once I got there realized only an extension cord was available, so the battery was at least kept a bit warm, but really got no charge for the whole night. No fast charging within 100km. One destination charger on the way back. 32 amps available. Late at night, nowhere is open, -25c, in a small town. Plug in. See no distance being added. Freaking out a bit. I figured out I had to cycle the cabin heating off and on to add some juice but not freeze to death. It took a long time to get enough juice to make it back. Lesson learned.

  • At 14:00 the seat heater is still on. That must have slowed down the charge.

    • Nope. I only had it on when I was in the car.

  • Do it! Good video, I hope that the newer models 3 with heatpump can save some energy from heating and pull more to the battery and charge continuously.

  • I made this mistake one Bjorn. I live in Arizona so driving in the cold doesn't happen that often, but I was at the Grand Canyon (for work) and I decided to just stop at the superchargers across the street in the morning. I started charging and it was going to take forever to heat up the battery, then the worst thing happened.. a loud BANG and 4 alerts on my screen. Car won't supercharge, Car may not start, No Regen Available and well something else, but "get your arse to a service center now!" I called Tesla and they said, "If I can, get to a Service center" which was 248 miles away, I tried supercharging and no go.. so I did a Bjorn, I took it out on the road, and Yoyo'd the motor, got it warmer and Voila, it supercharged.. no regen, like it said, but I did get enough juice to get me to the next supercharger.. my GOM was way off because.. no regen!. I stopped again, just to be sure and made it to the Service Center. The next day they told me that my battery heating/cooling unit had failed. luckily it was cold and not hot. The bad.. well it was ALL downhill and i used auto pilot and man, it cooked my brakes, no regen.. dammit.. Oh well.. this is a lesson that I wish l learned 2 years ago :) but thanks for getting me home with a different lesson that I learned on heating up the battery.

  • Time for a new house, your wife was right!

  • Here in The Netherlands so far I'm doing fine with Schuko at 13 amps (it's on a separate circuit with beefy cables I had put in for the car). Temps don't go much below 0 C here so charging in the evening has been enough so far. I pre-heat the interior in the morning, which is surprisingly quick (4-5 minutes to get from 4 to 20 C), but not long enough to heat the battery, which impacts the regen braking. I'm still considering putting in a wall charger with 3 phase power.

  • This is exactly one of those scenarios where battery swapping would come in clutch.

  • Hehe 1kw for the battery, 1kw for heating. I am very surprised that the seat heater works without weight on the seat, my previous year 2000 and current year 2009, does not turn on heated seats without weight on the seat, to not waste energy. My car also turns on heated seats every time the temperature is below 10 degrees, so makes sense that it does not turn on un used seats. I am guessing the Tesla seats are more simple made or maybe they did not think about it in California.

  • Hey Bjorn, here's another idea for an interesting test. It seems that in cold weather my M3 always starts heating the battery when I didn't pre-heat, even for very short trips. For instance when I take my kid to the daycare center, which is only a 5 - 10 minute drive. It seems very inefficient to try to heat up the battery for such short trips, cause it won't get warm anyway and it's maybe not needed either for only a short trip. I don't expect so, but maybe if you plan your trip in the navigation same as driving to a supercharger the car might think "ok, this won't do any good so no heating for you my friend"? From an energy saving perspective this might be an interesting feature for Tesla. By the way of course it's always better for really short trips to simply use a bicycle, but that's not always a viable option.

  • Lithium Chemistry in terms of temperature is a moving target but this will cause degredation in the cells. The Tesla system seems to be smart in regards the limits its putting into the battery. Anything below 10C is not great for the cycle life. The metal oxides only contribute to the capacity not the charge kinetics it's the electrolyte that is the limiting factor in this case.

    • @Harsimran Bansal Tesla don't use solid-state there using new manufacturing tech to get rid of the electrode solvents in production. But yea there far ahead with there partnership with Panasonic.

    • @Karl M ahhh, yea it’s a new technology and thats why it will take time to ramp up production. Thats why Tesla is so ahead. They already ramped up production but the manufacturing line isn’t reliably making functional cells. So they’re trying to get rid of that problem and to make sure that all cells the line produces, that nearly all are functional and can be put into cars!

    • @Harsimran Bansal in terms of volume production.

    • @Karl M what do you mean exactly? Scale?

    • @Harsimran Bansal True however solid electrolytes don't scale unfortunately. Better to have a second dedicated 24V battery or supercap for heating in cold environments.

  • Have you considered having an insulated mat to park on ?

    • @Anders Nilsson exactly, warmlike the battery

    • How would that help? It will still be the same temperature.

  • Update your phone haha

  • Very informative video. Could you simulate a typical commuter run in winter: charging overnight, preheat in the morning, drive 25 km to the office on mixed local roads and highway, leave it for 8 hours outside at the office, preheat and drive back home. The total energy consumption would be very interesting for Germans who pay high electricity prices or even for people in The Netherlands like me where home charging is approx 0.25 euro and public charging around 0.35 euro per kWh. VW ID 3 seems to have similar issues, see this 12 minute video from Battery Life in Germany: nolong.info/show/ZdB4goVpaKp4hKM/video.html

  • Now it would be nice to have another video with the battery and outside temperatures with the same start values, then preheat the car for 30min as adviced and then show how charging looks then. Thanks for the helpful information on tesla charging

  • Where is your Tesla model 3 race with Kris video, I already watch in Kris channel

  • @Bjørn Nyland what do you mean when you say "technically you are not allowed to pull more than 10A from Schuko" (9:30), if I draw 13A from Schuko when the car is on a separate circuit with 16A fuse is that not ok?

    • @Harsimran Bansal ok, but 13a is less than 80% of 16a so I don’t quite follow your logic?

    • With electricity you have to know 2 things about power output. “Peak” and “Continuous.” Things like a microwave, a toaster, hairdryer pull almost max power from the plug, but you’re not using it for long. Since the car will be charging for hours, you need to look at “continuous” and that usually refers to how big of a fuse you have. General rule of thumb, you never want to go above 80% of load on a fuse!

  • This should all be taken in account when overstating how efficient the Tesla is. Yes less than

    • Only in very cold winter and if not plugged in after driving. As mentioned, constructed case.

  • Yeah, the phone won't chare when it's cold. Mine if you try to charge it when it's cold it's says that it won't charge. If you run out and try to charge it and turn on, a snowflake does appear, and doesn't charge.

  • Yikes I charge at 80a at my house, couldn’t imagine 16 oof!

    • 80A 230V single phase? :O

  • Yes lease do the test on shuku

  • Make it simple. Swappable batteries!!

    • @Charles NIO has swappable batteries.

  • Good day, I would like to ask if you are interested to test Tesla products and we are importer / 3rd party tesla accessories manufacturer

  • love what you are doing Bjorn

  • Daily drive 50km. -5 C° and car 100% park outside. What more efficient 20min preheat or straight drive

  • Hi Bjorn! I live in Manitoba, Canada, and we have cold winters. -10C feels like a spring. This video was very informative. If time allows, could you please test how someone living in an apartment building without a garage could manage a Tesla? For example, consider this situation: It is Friday, and I return from work and park an EV on a street. It is -10C or below (e.g. -20C is normal for January-March). I do not plug the car for the whole weekend and do not use it. The car is just parked outside for 3 nights and 2 days till Monday morning when I need to go back to work. There is no charging options at work. The only charging I could go to is a Tesla Supercharger V2. Would this be realistic to do? Consider the distance between the workplace and home about 20 km in the city. Many thanks!

    • Yeah you can do that, but since you’re not charging overnight get the biggest battery pack available with the longest range. Also don’t preheat the car too early, like 30 minutes before leaving as it’ll try and heat up the battery. Just tell the car to preheat from your phone about 5 minutes before you get in the car and cabin will be warm without wasting too much energy heating battery. Just remember that it’ll be more inconvenient for you to go to a supercharger every week, if there isn’t one on your way or somewhere like a grocery store. Edit: if you can borrow one from a friend or rent one for a few days and see how it feels!

  • Hey Bjorn, are you planning to make a review or at least do a range test of the Opel Vivaro-e ?

  • Hey what brand of thermal camera attachment do you use ?

  • Aha! very useful video.

  • Turn off the seat/cabin heater and the result will be very different.

    • Seat heater was only on when I was sitting in the car. And it only pulls 100 W. No big deal.

  • Yes, do your proposed charging!

  • can you try a China Made Model 3 SR+ with the CATL battery in cold weather

  • I love that you have 1 phase schuko 230V to 3-phase 230V to 3-phase 400V adapter Bjørn 🙈

  • The seat heater was on while you were in the car

    • Correct. But it's almost irrelevant because it only pulls 50-100 W.

  • Always charge when coming home, highest efficiency and therefore cheaper even when charging on peak tariff. Waiting for off-peak hours really costs you more money, because of inefficient loading, especially when outside temperature is under plus 10 degrees Celsius!

  • Cool. I think my I-Pace charge even when the battery is -12. At least I know it charges when the battery is at -6 degrees.

  • Very interesting!

  • Hi Bjørn Did you ever experience too cold cable issues? I heard in Norway you shouldn't keep your cables in the boot this time a year because connectors shrinks from cold and this cause a problem with connection. Is that true?

  • Prior to receiving my m3 I had a Tesla Wall Connector installed to 3 phase @ 13A and always use the scheduler set for my morning commutes. I have yet to even witness these issues. I guess it is necessary to adapt to new habits when you purchase an EV.

  • Now I'm curious how the Leaf would fair at this test.

    • Leaf does fine. They put so much cobalt in the battery that even at 75% i get about 45+ kw. Cold weather is no issue!

    • My guess... it will charge at normal rate and hurt the batteries.

  • Just to l et you know - I'm BIG TIME interested in the charging efficiency. Very very interesting how must you get out of the energy being put into the battery in various conditions! - Thanks for you very informative videos!

  • Bjorn, you talk that car is not able/allowed to charge because battery is too cold and maybe the battery does not have "enough" cobalt on it to accept charge that cold. This means that even with 11kW AC charge available and assuming that the "heater" is using the usual 7kW, the remaining 4kW is not used to charge the battery until it's hot enough? Or in this case the car is not charging the battery only because it is using all available power to heat them. If you have more than 7kW available on the plug the car will put something in to the battery even with -6°C on the pack?

  • Hey Bjørn! It would be interesting to repeat this low amperage charging test after wrapping the underside of the car in an insulation blanket. I live in Ottawa, Canada and park my model 3 outside. I only have a 240/15 amp circuit available and initially I was very worried that it wouldn't have enough to juice to heat and charge the car simultaneously on the coldest of days. Fortunately, this never ended up being much on an issue, however I do notice the car going into these heating/charging cycles at times - particularly on very windy days. A foam or insulation blanket was going to be my fail safe (thank goodness it was never needed), but I'd be curious if it would have actually been effective. Might be a useful solution for others!

  • In this scenario how long one should preheat the battery?

    • 10-15 minutes should get the battery nice and warm!

  • You need to wash that car Bjœrn 😳😎

    • Most often a bad idea washing a Tesla in -15.

  • I don't think the problem is that big as you state. If you start charging with a warm battery I'm quite certain that it will charge for at least all night without needing to heat the battery up. And also if your car is cold it only uses lots of extra energy to heat it up. Just keeping it heated probably only uses about 10-20 percent of the energy got heat with a 16A charge

    • That was my point. Plug in after driving in the evening.

  • When a engineer makes videos, this is what you get! Great info 👍

  • Yes ac charging cold weather efficient would be interesting.

  • No lithium ion battery can be charged below 0. Metallic lithium can start to form and it will destroy the battery.

    • Many LG Chem batteries can be charged down to -20°C. I've seen the datasheet for Seat Mii batteries (or something similar). They just limit the charge power to a very low value, but don't require heating. Tesla has optimized other parameters in their chemistry and compromised cold performance.

  • In a fish cent?

  • This was great. I just took my 2021 SR+ (Canada) to it’s first supercharger, 50% battery, mostly cold and it charged up to 69% never getting above 19KW or 149km/hr. Watching one of your previous videos about charging this made sense. Idea, try supercharging with different states of charge at cold temps. I think a cold battery at 10% would charge up faster than a slightly warm battery from 50%.

    • @Amin Asadi The battery in this video also includes cobalt - the cobalt-free battery is only in Made in China Model 3 SR+ at this point. The US-SR+ cars (like the one from Dan Perra) have the same panasonic battery chemistry like the Long Range cars. It is normal, that in cold conditions the supercharging is slow.

    • @M HADI I was just 10 minutes away from the supercharger so maybe not enough time to get up to temp. -8C outside.

    • Your battery should be panasonic which includes cobalt. According to Björn it should charge faster than the model in this video.

    • Also, another good episode would be on phantom battery drain, especially when cold.

  • I knew this, but only because reading it in various groups (and by watching your videoes), but the car's UI could have indicated this. That it is heating the battery.

  • Please test a Model 3 SR+ MIC in cold weather. Would be very interessting

  • If you have the newest SR+ from China (LFP battery) available some charging test would be interesting! I heard that even with preheating you cannot reach more than 40kW at SuC, and this even only for a short time. Maybe you can find out how to handle it? There are some rumors about calibrating by very slow charging from less than 10 percent to 100% will help here.

    • That's not true and there are many clickbait-reports out there related to the SR+ LFP at the moment. With preheating and normal driving before supercharging, you get good results on Supercharger V3, here ist a diagram showing the charging curve: i.imgur.com/T9pZ6Ft.png I drive the SR+ with this battery on my own and I also had charging speeds over 100kW lately. And Tesla will do an update in the next weeks that should increase the charging speed even more.

  • Hey Bjorn! Very interesting as always. My Model 3 P is camping outside in Moscow and this time the winter as a real one. I do have some limitations with power at my house, but was able to have 16A 3 phase. I usually set it to 12A and it gives me 8kW on average. Recent -20 went quite easy for overnight charging. Thanks again for all your videos. Enjoy them much along with learning many tips.

  • Ah the "Marcusail" car is back.

  • It's not a major deal to get your electrics upgraded.

    • @Bjørn Nyland maybe in Norway. In England it's relatively easy. Expensive, but easy. For an electrician that is.

    • Incorrect. It is.

  • You need a block heater just like a fossil car.

    • Yea the new cells Tesla is developing shouldn’t cold-gate even in -10C. They have a solid electrolyte so they can accept charge even at very very low temperature!

  • Very interesting video! I think you tested with a 2021 Model 3 Performance with the Panasonic battery. How do you think the cars with LG batteries will perform? If I am not mistaken these are the pre 2021 models and the 2021 LR. Keep up the good work! :-)

  • Hi Bjorn, very interesting video. Maybe a solution is driving around the neighbourhood or the city for around 15 minutes to heat up all the systems and then try to juice it up? 🤔 What do you think?

    • @Bjørn Nyland Thanks Bjorn, understood

    • No need to. Just preheat from the app like I said. No need to waste time driving around.

  • This battery must have the Panasonic battery. My LG is apparently full of kobolt, only need 1,5 degree for full AC charge and 40-50kw regen.

  • Thank God for climate change...oh...wait...

  • Hey Bjorn community, I have a quick question. How cold can a Model 3 Battery get? Temperatures here often reach -20 to -25C and I was wondering if the battery pack needs to maintain a minimum temperature or not?

    • Nope. Batteries can function perfectly fine in -40 as well just with much reduced performance. You won’t have regen at those temps and you’d probably want a higher power output on the socket as it likely won’t charge on standard home plugs.

  • Lesson learned, Tesla cost more to run than an Ice car in winter.

    • Incorrect. Even when charging like this, it's still way cheaper than fossil cars.

  • Love my new Hyundai Ioniq but went to fast charge yesterday with temperatures of +4c and was only getting 22kw from the off, went up to 26kw but that was it.(50kw charger) Would love to see you do the winter challenge in this car, bet it would drive you mad, god knows what it charges at in -25c. Still very efficient though in winter.

    • I've also done that, we always preheated the Ioniq before long road trips in winter and you'll have no issues with DC fast charge, but one time the fuse blew in the nigth so the car didn't preheat or charge during the nigth. The battery was about -15°C when we left the house. On the fast charger we got like 5kW... So we had to put it in the AC charger, and preheat the car 3 times to thoroughly thaw it before we could get 30kW but it didn't go close to max charging speeds which was up to 67kW like it usually did in winter 😅 we never let the car be on the Emergency AC Charger before long road trips after that 😅

  • Charging the car without a proper 7KW charger at home is silly. In the UK I get a 5p/kwh rate for 4 hours at night, and it's 15p during the day. So plugging in at the end of the day would be expensive, also likely charging during peak hours using dirty electricity. Luckily it also doesn't go to -10 here very often :)

  • Lol, Bjorn with the most efficient car, least efficient house.

    • @Anders Nilsson Cool, thanks for the info. Pure electric would make the most sense, if you ask me? Or Heat pump, with the clean energy, so many things start to work.

    • It is not that easy, alternatives: -Wood/pellets -District heating -Heat pump air/air, air/water, well, ground. -Pure electric Not many houses uses oil nowadays

    • How is it heated? Electricity, or oil?

    • u been in scandinavia?

    • Not really. G rating is quite common for houses this age.

  • Why isn't it using the heat pump to heat the battery? It's several times more efficient.

    • Just a wild guess: Maybe it's because it doesn't know whether the car is in a garage or not. A heat pump inside a garage would not work at all, or just for a short time until the ambient temperature gets low.

  • as far as i know schuko must take 16 amps for 30 minutes. and 10 amps after that.

    • In Norway you're not allowed to charge EV's on schuko above 10A because of fire hazards, so that's just called emergency charger. You'll need to remove the schuko like Bjørn has with industrial connectors for 230V or 400V if you want to go above 10A, both the blue and red plug he uses is allowed to use with 32A 😉

  • Interesting, i thought lithium batteries would freeze and break if under 0°C?

  • Hi Bjørn! Thanks for your videos! I have a M3 LR 2021, and i want to know if is normal the heat pump noise, could you show the heat pump sound from the Trunk?? For compare it with others! I have sleeped inside, and sometimes is too noisy, and i dont know if is normal! Thanks!

  • bjorn, if you use the scan my tesla beta 2.0 you can see this report very fast on the temperature gauges panel, very usefull, make it a try

  • Hi Bjorn, VERY valuable video. I just got my 2021 LR Model 3 in December and I live in Canada which now has temps of -10C to -20C. My car is parked outside as I have one more car than garage space. For the first couple of weeks I just had 120Volt 12Amp (1.4kW) outlet and found it pretty much useless for charging. It could barely maintain a charge level. I now have 240Volt 32Amps ( 7.7kW) to work with and ScanMyTesla so I am all set. Thanks again for all your teaching! Phil

  • Pro tip to iPhone users. Get a different brand.

  • Love the "worst-case" scenario tests. And thanks for the neat tip on warming a COLD phone in your car. Very interesting to see how the car switches back and forth from charging the battery and adding RANGE vs WARMING the battery. This is good SHEEEET.

  • I wonder if setting a portable propane heater to blow under the car for 15min would help warm the battery?

  • Cabin fever in Tesla cabin? ;-)

  • My car has a lithium polymer battery which is better than lithium ion in cold weather ⚡️✅🚗👍