Tesla Model 3 degradation after 2 years/80k km

Publisert 6. feb.. 2021
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Kommentarer

  • My model 3 LR from march 2020 says in scan my tesla that it has max 68,5 kwh nominal full back and 12% degredation allready i noticed today. only 1 month ago scan my tesla said 73kwh nominal full pack and 4 % degredation. something must have happened thel ast 4 weeks :O

  • How much did you sell it for?

  • For battery longevity, avoid superchargers in general and try to settle a good 80-20% everyday cycle

  • What u are seeing isn't degradation; it's the motor's efficiency. The 71.9kwh measured battery capacity translates to 67kwh actual transmitted to the road. So your motor efficiency is about 94%. Your degradation is the drop from 74.75kwh to 71.9kwh over the 2 years. Oh by the way my MDL 3P+ bought in Oct 2018 is sitting at 70.5kwh, so you're doing better than me..

  • Its the charging rate which degrades the battery the most. Its an around 75 KW/H battery what is the maximum rate in terms of KW, were you charging the car on fast chargers? Keep up the work.

  • Seriously, you put out so many you tube videos about electric vehicles, you must be either working for one of the car makers or probably battery makers.-or at least sponsored by them. There is such a mountain of BS about EVs on you tube i. Oh and please don't expect that all your comments will be happy clappy praises to the electric ev god's. NB Norway is OIL mega rich, probably the richest country per capita, so Is this infatuation with EVs symptomatic of typical indulgences of the rich playing with new toys?

  • Time flies with mc hammer

  • In only 2 years so many KM? OMG , i have only 22540km in 3 years.

  • I've noted that with cooler temps ie winter my M3 RWD May 2018 range tends to decrease as much as 5% until the avg temp begins to increase. I don't use an app to measure available power but at 104000km I'm sitting at about 5% deg. But I don't DC charge often only on trips. Last DC was last Aug. Probably only supercharged 25 times in her life. Maybe 1200kwh.

  • Will you avoid preheating your new Model S?

  • Am I wrong in thinking this is higher than expected battery deg? I didn't think Model S battery deg was as bad as this, but am I mistaken?

  • 6:45 so this Tesla got 8% degradation over a two year period from being new. 8:18 Good to know that aging affects the battery degradation too.

  • At winter tho...

  • My Model S P85D 2015 went from 415Km new to 385Km range today. Big deal!

  • rapid charge can get preggo battery too #renaultzoe #etron3 #leaf

  • This is exactly why I HATE that next Tesla will have integrated battery. Batteries on EVERY product EVER made should be removable. You buy a Tesla and 10 years down the line, the battery is shot, and you want to replace it, and NOPE you cannot because it's non removable. Governmets should make it law that they can be replaced. This is the same problem as phone batteries. Nobody is replacing batteries anymore, you replace the phone. That's just very enviromentaly bad. When we had the chance to replace batteries on phones, we replaced them when they went to shit.

  • @Bjørn , could you do something similar on Audi and other car brands that has a larger battery buffer?

  • I'm driving a 2016 model s with 214000km at the Moment. When it was new it showed 410km fully charged and now its at 392. The maximum i drove it in a single charge was about 360km with 20km left. It was charged at about 70% DC in its life. So maybe we just got lucky in the battery lottery.

  • 8% after 80000km seems great!

  • Over thinking it. Still cheaper than petroleum based fuel for the mileage. Or ride a bike.

  • Awesome performance on a cold day. Unless ambient temperature, vehicle speed, and wind and road conditions are the same for every test, accurate comparisons are impossible. A lot of driving for nothing, in my opinion, but you get an A for effort.

    • The conditions were in fact almost identical. That's why I did the tests.

  • there is degradation % in scan my tesla, is it incorrect?

  • Too many charge cycles means it will wear the battery faster. A battery and supercapacitor hybrid should solve this problem. Supercapacitor act like a PC Random access memory, it meant to be charge and discharge quickly, perfect for stop and go driving and the battery acting as supplemental for range or quick acceleration.

  • Curious point. You have gone 50k miles on what is a total of about 20kwh, which averages out to 2.5 m/kwh or 400wh/mi lifetime which is also about 84.25 mpge after all charging and vampire losses are considered. What does your in dash display say? Is it anywhere close or much more optimistic than this?

  • There are no perfect batteries despite the expectation, and for Lithium Ion at one cell or or 2000 cells plus, they will degrade with time, charging, temp. etc. He's in a severe climate, cold wise, and also done a considerable amount of fast charging (also generates high cell temps depending on ambient temp, etc.), which may be required for him, but I think with care given to the above, degradation can be reduced.

  • Honest and nice review of battery state. Maybe that is why some car manufactors does not pre-heat so much. Makes sense it is hard on the life time of the battery.

  • Stats at 07:53 reveals a higher overall total consumption(?) AC+DC charge total= 19.808 kwh/7996,5 mil = 2,477 kwh/10 km (mil). Correct? EPA rating is 1,8 kwh/10 km.... +37% based on EPA. And in my opinion the only stats interresting. The car har used 19.808 kwh. over 79965 actual km if I understand this correctly...? And then it seem you have to add a percentage to the driving stats. Due to? Drain? Pre-heating? eff. loss?

    • @Bjørn Nyland So, I didn't get the terms completely correct, but I think you understood the question....

    • nolong.info/show/preopXypo5aiinU/video.html

  • Heating the interior and the battery could easily be 1kWhr.

  • Your videos are the best 🎉😁😎

  • According to some stats, degradation is very much denpendent on temp and SoC(!!) but not so much if AC or DC. So at 20 degrees, there is no significance in Degradation between AC and DC. At 30 degrees there is also no significant difference between AC and DC. However, At higher temp, there is a general higher degradation no matter if AC or DC. So at 30 degrees = higher degradation then at 20. At first I was super concerned because where I live, there was no AC charger around but DC only. So charging at 20-50kw DC should not destroy battery. Degradation is also very much dependent on SoC! Lowest deg. between SoC 65-75% ( 8000 cycles), followed by 25-85% (5500 cycles) and 25-100% (4200 cycles). Also according to this stats, degradation is high (ca. 5%) in first year and then slowes down by following years.

  • Excellent video, Bjorn. I think that based on the data it is fair to say that a heavy - severe duty cycle will degrade the battery ~ 2% a year after the battery settles in after the first year. I don't see any degradation in my car (2018 Tesla Model 3 LR) this past year with a light duty cycle so that is about the degradation range we'll see in the fleet. Regarding pre-conditioning games, a middle ground might make sense for people who supercharge a LOT: Bring the battery up to 10 - 15C instead of 25C. Easy for people with SMT, and for others they can turn on the pre-conditioning at say 10 km from the Supercharger. Of course now that Tesla has upgraded the heating system and actively uses the battery heat in the winter the best practices may change. I actually am a bit concerned that Tesla will let the battery stay hot longer in the winter as a reserve for cabin heating. I'm looking forward to an intermediate heat reservoir(s) that can let the battery cool down quickly after supercharging but not discharge the heat as waste.

  • Great videos. Is it possible to do a few that focus on Driver Assist features, eg Voice activation, TACC, traffic conditions v Google Maps, ease of use of the features in real life situations, etc?

  • Very interesting

  • That's almost no degradation... My smartphone battery is also 2 years old, and it lost almost a third of its capacity...

  • Did you get anywhere with Tesla about the hot air in footwell?

  • FYI stationary consumption doesn't count to the stated wh/km.

    • Correct. But I didn't stand still very long.

  • Toyota Prius 600.000km and 0 problems, not more than 4.000€ spent in maintenance...😎. Yeap no doubt Tesla is wallet sucks 🤣

    • Don't forget that you spent about 40000€ for fuel.

  • Have any of your 2018+ teslas been throttled?

  • It is normal that battery degrades faster when it's fresh new, degradation accelerates in first years of ownership and then it slows down a little bit after. Nothing to worry about,it is pretty common in lithium batteries. Also i read some research about battery degradation that fast charging or hyper charging do not degrades the battery faster(only a little bit), unfortunately ALL charging(AC and DC) degrades the battery but mainly it is HIGH temperature that degrade the battery most. So be careful when the temperature of battery is high,especially when you charge in the summer.

  • Not so sure about high degradation because of DC fast charging. My Model S 70D from 2015 has done 268000km meanwhile. 2/3 charging at the supercharger. Degradation is 9% (measured same way like Bjørn does - also ScanMyTesla). Was lower in between, because of battery cut done by Tesla. But Tesla gave the range back meanwhile. May be not fully comparable to Model 3 because my car charges much slower at the supercharger. Conclusion: Old Model S are somewhat endurable ;)

  • Everyone in the comments now an engineer 😂😂😂. Stop with this non sense and just enjoy the car. People always looking for something to bitch about....

  • 9:20 to get less degradation (better range so you can get faster from point A to B), spend time charging on a colder battery (thus get slower from point A to B) 😁

  • Meh bunch of myths. Supercharging doesn't effect batteries life. You are misleading people with your calculations. If you dont preheat the battery on model3 and its too cold. You will sit at Supercharger for an hour just waiting for it to heat up. Bunch of non sense.

  • Fast charging is definitely bad for the battery, but it is always about compromise. I have battery from fiat 500e, no fastcharging, and it has 55 Ah usable from 62 Ah when brand new. 7 years old and small battery, which speeds up the degradation. Also 60 °C for Tesla battery is intentional, it was proofed, that it actually helps to improve battery longevity when fastcharging and also allows those insane charging speeds of V3.

  • Will you be KiaBjorn until the plaid arrives after MC Hammer goes?

  • Yes, degradation is non-linear over the life of the car.. i suspect a larger initial degradation... with the curve becoming asymptotic toward the end of its life?

  • Degradation is even worse in the standard range plus model 3 2019

  • I can't believe it. Ok I can believe it but doesn't make it any easier to know MC Hammer is leaving the TeslaBjorn spotlight soon. I need to do this same test again for my 50k+ mile 2018 Model 3 Long Range. I'd say I might be about even with your result but have to test to know for sure. SMT claims 9.51% degradation, DC 1952 kWh, AC 14494 kWh, 287 Rated Range. Would be crazy to know if mine is just as bad. Though I'm also heavy on the pedal on these rural roads up to cruising speed. Fast discharge rates probably don't help as well.

  • How much is supercharged?

  • Great video. I forgot about battery degradation. But it has become the norm for everything electronic. Something to be aware of as we move to electric cars.

    • @Bjørn Nyland Fossils sometimes loose the exhaust mid-driving. Fossils are way worse in terms of ageing, if you ask me. Seen it twice in the last weeks. Actually, in the timespan of 5 minutes i saw 2 exhausts dropping mid-driving. Fun times... My Y 4680 cant come fast enough. (:

    • Fossil cars lose power as the age. EVs lose range.

  • I typically owned my cars around 12years. So simple calculation will be %50 degradation after 12 years...

    • Degradation on battery is not linear...

  • Hi Bjørn, did you sell MC Hammer through a dealership here in Norway? Or would you recommend another way?

  • I can confirm your data, I have a 2 year old Model 3 with 90k km and it has 7.9% degradation, 60%DC charging

    • @Big fish I wouldn't say that's a lot... friends cars have around 30-50k km and have 5-6% degradation. Degradation is steep at the beginning and levels out later.. I'm satisfied with 7.9%!

    • @Big fish Shoddy workmanship likely

    • That's a lot, too many DC charging probably?

    • Sad

  • 5-8% battery degradation is very normal from all of the numbers I've seen people report as their 100% range

  • How can you turn off pre-heating if selecting a charger in the gps?

  • -8ºC "not that cold"?🥶 I realize it gets much colder than that there, but as someone who grew up in a place where I didn't see naturally occurring frozen moisture in nature, or own a coat, until I was 12, statements like that amuse me.🤣

  • Curious, been following you since '17, only recently got my Model 3, haven't experienced a summer in CA yet 100ºF/38ºC. In those temps, does preconditioning lower the battery temp or would it already be kept low throughout the drive? I think I won't precondition as much in milder temps, but wondering if it's still useful in hot temps.

  • Thanks dude.

  • @Bjorn Batteries, especially Teslas packs are more efficient at higher temp if you are super charging. The reason being is higher temp = electrons are able to move faster. Therefore battery resistance is super low and therefore accepts high speed charging more readily. Giving advice of not reheating before super charging actually can lead to more degradation. Cold batteries degrade faster. Reasons are: Temperature cycles will degrade the lithium like metal fatigue. Lower temperatures mean higher resistance to accepting charge e.g. your creating more heat during the charge cycles e.g. accelerates aging. Yes super charging and higher temperature slightly ages your batteries, the same way people tan their skin and it looks older. But it is necessary for the high speed charge. Best thing for making batteries last super long is keep it stored at room temp e.g. indoors in a warm ish garage. Keep the battery between 20-80% SOC. Avoid super charging especially to 100%

  • Same degradation as our 2019 Leaf after 44,000km.

  • so if you want to keep these cars for 50 years, the new batteries that are integrated in the structure will be a pain to replace.

    • @Ikmala Hafiz yeah like 1963 mustang or 57 chevy

    • are there people who keep their cars for 50 years?? anyway i thought tesla batteries should last a million miles even if they degrade.

  • Interesting stuff! Think it would be great if there were way more AC around the place along with the ability to automatically debit your power bill when connectiong to one.

  • I do everything to avoid DC charging. The International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) is 15C/1013hpa@MSL. Variations from there are expressed as ISA plus or ISA minus . Thus your figures need correction for a worldwide audience such as an Australian summer v Norwegian winter in order to relate to comparative degradation expectations .............?

  • Maybe you should have the option to turn pre heating off ..

  • 6:16 If it is true, that the nominal capacity is calculated with ideal conditions, why this value changes with temperature and from day to day (to be higher or lower)? 🤔

  • Sold my 2020 SR+ today =D getting 2021 SR+ in the next 3-4 weeks =D

    • I make 1.000€ profit by doing this and i get a new car with Refresh Heatpump, new Windows, new Center console, new Lights and electric Trunk Opener. Also i've 39km more range and a slightly bigger battery. Totally worth it.

    • What’s your motivation?

  • Bjørn is disappointed that the battery pack seemed to have degraded 0.1 % more thank expected :D

  • In b4 fanboys claiming supercharging doesn't degrade the pack.

  • I wonder what’s the ideal temp for the battery to operate and stay healthy. And maybe the preheating is due not only to fast charge but also to healthy charge?

    • Between 30-45°C is usually the ideal battery temp for battery discharge performance.

  • SOC 101 % is pretty good

  • "...keeps the battery nice and warm..." But the energy to heat the battery comes from somewhere and 2 months ago it would have been warmer, no?

  • Thermal cycles definitely seem to increase degradation, but supercharging a cold battery can’t be good either... plus, the battery will warm up during the supercharging session, so not preheating probably doesn’t get you anything. The best thing to avoid seems to be a high SoC/high temp combination.

  • Video-tip, make a video about the Will Farrell/GM and Kristofer Hivju/Audi "ad-fight" going on :) www.motor1.com/news/486237/audi-norway-gm-super-bowl-response/

  • Nice test as always... what degradation report does ABRP-APP show?

  • Ive done a mild version of this test with mine as well and it seems to vary a bit. Yesterday I did it at minus 9 with sunny weather, I got 72kw available (But i only drove 56km). Another time with worse condition I got 66kw available (Same 56km). Edit: Don’t try to make comments shorter by skipping h’s, or else you will get pinned down!

    • nolong.info/show/preopXypo5aiinU/video.html

  • Does this apply on the phone battery when fast charging?? Curiosity kills😆😆😆

    • @-*KGB*- Thanks Mate !

    • yes it does, u can prolong battery by using lower charge rate and keep battery between 20%-80%. dont go lower under 20% and dont charge over 80% cap.

  • Hei Bjørn, what does your Scan my Tesla say about the battery degredation? My M3 LR AWD 05/19 with 35k km it says that it already degredated 7,6% (Nominal Full Pack 72 kW)

    • nolong.info/show/preopXypo5aiinU/video.html

  • Hei how to calculate And what's is .978 som you divide ? 324.5 (km) *202(consumption)/.978?(what is this)=67

    • nolong.info/show/ppumgG-jrK-Cg30/video.html

  • long shot but I try to ask here, is it possible to remove front passenger seat completly in model 3? i know this sounds weird but I really really dont need it and extra space will be helpfull in my personal usage of this car

    • @Nobody Famous but can i drive normally without some error sonds or somethign? ? in my car I can remove error/fault by simple OBD bluetooth dongle

    • Of course it can be removed. It will likely generate a fault due to the airbag being disconnected.

  • Bjorn dod you watch the Will Farrell Super Bowl 2021 GM EV commercial.Very funny

  • 8% degradation for 80k km seems pretty good. If it degraded at the same rate that'd be 1,000,000 km! Of course, it'd be a bit useless, 90% degradation would be 900k km leaving you with 7.3KW capacity. Lets say 0.2kwh/km, that's still 36.5km of range which is plenty of many people just for commuting

    • @Arnold Cziurlok While there's no guarantee I think it's good for a rule of thumb. Unless it drastically declines I think it'd be close. Depends on the mileage you do too. If you're a high mileage driver you're going to do more recharging as the range drops, so degradation will speed up.

    • You cannot make linear estimations.

  • When’s the last time you calibrated the BMS? You’ll have to leave the car sleep for a few hours with a low SOC for the BMS to calibrate itself under zero load.

    • @Wyatt Mullin I don't remember... but it was quite recently. It kind of makes sense, the BMS needs to calibrate itself every now and then, and calibration happens when the vehicle is idle and the HV contactor is open.

    • Where did you hear this? How low SOC?

  • nolong.info/show/m7Z0fo1_ZtF7gX0/video.html&ab_channel=MunroLive

  • Sold MC Hammer? Ah! You finally imported a Citroen Amì from France, to do the 1,000KM challenge with it! :D :D :D

  • I found that charging was too quick when eating was involved when I toured Europe in my SR+ when it’s charging was capped at 100kW. I used abetterrouteplanner.com to choose my charge stops and duration. I think SuC auto preheat had not been rolled out then either. My approach was to just not be in a hurry,

  • Slow charging is always best for lithium based batteries. Heat is the enemy as is extreme state of charge. Nearly impossible with average with an EV car.

  • my 2020 model 3 only has 5k miles and i lost 12 miles already on the range

  • Great video! What app do you use to measure that???

    • Scan My Tesla. Check video description.

  • What is the name of the app that you use on your phone, that shows all the stats?

    • Scan My Tesla. Check video description.

  • the model s in super charge hihi like model s cross country. extra hi air suspension

  • Faster you charge faster discharge and faster degrades

  • I wish we all could agree Bjørn's videos a no a-social zone, one where we tune in to enjoy one man working hard for the rest of us..

    • You mean no valid criticism? Go to Russia!

  • tesla should really pay u for this great job Bjorn,,.

  • It would be interesting to know how many supercharges, fast DC charges went into MC Hammer over 2 years. I estimate Bjorn has fast charged ~250 times over two years - where as most EV drivers charge from AC and DC fast charge ~25 times a year at most!

  • Hi Bjorn. I wonder if it’s possible to ask to tesla for a new screen switch to skip pre-aconditioning. Greetings!!

  • Lesson learned: never charge to 100%. To 60% for daily commuting, 80% for longer trips and 90-95% at maximum only when needed. Going above 80% doesn't really make sense since the charging time slows down a lot and it damages the battery. The only time that it might make sense is to slow charge from 80 to 95% overnight before a long trip, but I think it's actually better to just charge to 80% and fast charge when it has 30% left to 60% and repeat that charging schedule at lower percentages since it's faster and healthier for the battery.

    • @Si E Wrong, never charge to 100% that will destroy the battery. I have charged my phone to 60% for 4 years and the battery is like new still.

    • I've heard that you should keep batteries between 20-100% and Li-ion batteries shouldn't stay at 100% if possible. Charging to 100% is fine if you're going to use the battery fairly soon after but charging to 100% and keeping it there hours or days before you need it is probably bad for the battery. That's true for all Li-ion batteries, so your phone etc. is the same I wonder if charging only to 80% offsets any potential damage from fast charging. Ideally you'd do neither but if you're doing a long journey you'd probably want to use a fast charger or charge to 100% to save time.

  • Didn't Tesla limit battery capacity on an update a while back which took you from 73-70ish? so then the real degradation is only 70 to 67? would make a lot more sense and be much more consistent with others at 50-100k miles on their model 3 I have watched do similar testing.

  • Our September 2019 Model 3 has around 9% degradation after 40,000 km. Very little DC charging, normally keep SoC between 20% and 80%. Any thoughts about the high degradation?

    • @Roman Senger I’ve tried that. Tried charging to 100% couple of times (method 1) and tried letting it sit at around 15% for a couple of hours to let the voltage stabilize across the cells at low SoC, and similar at 90%, repeating this a couple of times (method 2). Haven’t seen an increase yet. Maybe it is the cold of winter because I read that BMS also reduces capacity of the pack in colder temperatures. Do you know of any other calibration methods or have other suggestions?

    • Calibrate the BMS. Google how to do it. You will see an increase in range.

  • Thanks agein for good video. Learn somthing new Evry time.

  • Lots of DC fast charging always gets ya